Legislature(2013 - 2014)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/25/2013 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing: Select Committee on Legislative Ethics | |
| SB72 | |
| SJR9 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 72 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 69 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SJR 9 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SJR 9-CONST. AM: EDUCATION FUNDING
2:22:19 PM
CHAIR COGHILL announced that the next order of business would be
SJR 9. He noted the committee heard the bill previously. He said
he invited Commissioner Hanley from the Department of Education
and Early Development (DEED) back to answer questions.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI stated that he has questions for
Commissioner Hanley.
[CHAIR COGHILL opened public testimony.]
MAUREEN VAN WAGNER, Special Education Teacher, East High School,
testified in opposition to SJR 9. She gave reasons why the bill
is not good. The base student allocation (BSA) hasn't been
increased since 2010 and teachers are already expected to do
more with less. Bills like this will continue that trend and
make her job even more difficult. She didn't support using
public tax dollars to fund private schools, and she disputed the
notion that voucher programs actually increase choice.
TIM PARKER, Teacher, Lathrop High School, testified in
opposition to SJR 9. He talked about how challenging voucher
programs would be for the state's education system. He
maintained that research on vouchers does not show that they
increase student performance. He dispelled the idea that
vouchers provide more school choice. He said Alaska public
schools already provide a tremendous amount of choice, and they
accept all students.
MR. PARKER discussed the six principles idea for improved
student learning: professional learning communities, peer
review, extra time for students, the evaluation system,
family/school partnerships, and a rich and varied curriculum. He
said that SJR 9 in its current form and opening the constitution
to include private and religious schools does not meet the
threshold of improved student learning.
2:28:54 PM
SENATOR DYSON asked how Monroe, a private school, compares to
Lathrup in academic achievement and spending.
MR. PARKER said he didn't have that information.
2:29:40 PM
TODD HEINMAN, Principal, Anvil City Science Academy (ACSA),
testified in opposition to SJR 9. He said that ACSA is a charter
school that has operated for 15 years and continues to provide
parental choice within the public school system. He maintained
that using public funds for religious and private educational
institutions will dilute public dollars and public school
students will be negatively affected.
MIKE HANLEY, Commissioner, Department of Education and Early
Development (DEED), offered to answer questions related to SJR
9.
2:31:35 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if the state was currently expending
funds unconstitutionally to educational institutions.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said the areas that seemed unconstitutional
were corrected.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if it was his opinion that SJR 9
isn't needed because of unconstitutional state monies being
expended.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said he would need clarification about
specific expenditures.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI referred to the list of programs in the
sponsor's packet.
CHAIR COGHILL noted that several programs such as the Advantage
Scholarship were possibly outside the commissioner's purview.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY deferred to legal counsel regarding the
Alaska Performance Scholarship and the Alaska Advantage
[Education Grant].
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he had received legal advice that
those expenditures are either constitutional or
unconstitutional.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said they have been deemed constitutional.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he was aware of any of the
expenditures being made by the state for educational purposes
that are unconstitutional.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said not that he was aware of.
2:33:45 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if the requirements for charter schools to
comply with things like school size and OSHA standards were put
in through the regulatory process or statute.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said primarily statute. In Alaska, charter
schools are under the umbrella of local school districts and
their organization and governance is the same as a traditional
neighborhood school.
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if voucher programs receiving public
monies would be required to comply with OSHA and Individuals
with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA).
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said he wasn't familiar with OSHA, but they
would have to comply with IDEA requirements. The courts have
defined in four ways DEED's responsibilities with regard to
establishing and maintaining a system of public education. Those
are oversight and support, creating standards, assessment for
those standards, and funding. It would be difficult to meet the
constitutional obligations if the private institutions didn't
meet those accountability measures. It becomes a discussion for
the legislature if this bill moves forward.
2:36:55 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE emphasized that if public funds go into an
educational system of any sort there will be strings attached to
comply with the requirements of federal law and standards.
She asked if he could envision letting public schools erode to
the point of being nonfunctional.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY responded that it's a constitutional
responsibility to adequately fund and maintain the educational
system. There's a responsibility to meet the needs of all
students.
2:40:06 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked about the notion of setting aside a base
amount to meet the constitutional requirement for public
institutions.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said it was a possibility, and the
responsibility for funding resides with the legislature.
2:41:24 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if a private school that accepted
vouchers would be required to accept students with disabilities
or special needs.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said it was a legal conversation, but
students are owed a free and appropriate public education. If
public funds go to a private school his expectation was that it
would be required to comply with the same requirements as public
schools.
CHAIR COGHILL clarified that this wasn't about funding the
schools; the policy question is whether students can take
funding with them. Then it's a question of how far the
requirements can reach, given that funding.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said that was his understanding and the
reason why things like the performance scholarship could go to a
faith-based school. The funding is a function of the students.
2:43:38 PM
CHAIR COGHILL said he wanted to make sure that all the "what if"
questions were put on the table and debated.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there was any recourse for
taxpayers who don't want their funding to go to religious
schools.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said he did not know.
CHAIR COGHILL commented that there are taxpayers currently who
don't agree with a number of things including sex education in
public schools.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI argued that the state doesn't fund
churches.
CHAIR COGHILL mentioned secular humanism as a church issue and a
philosophy.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI pointed out that the state doesn't fund
organized churches.
CHAIR COGHILL said he brought it up as part of the broader
conversation.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked the commissioner if he envisioned
placing any parameters on schools that teach particular
religious beliefs.
COMMISSIONER HANLEY said he has not considered that yet, but it
would be problematic for the state to make such determinations.
2:46:51 PM
CHAIR COGHILL requested the sponsor to comment on the "what
ifs."
SENATOR MIKE DUNLEAVY, sponsor SJR 9, said he was happy to talk
about the what ifs for long periods, but that isn't what the
bill is about. He referred to the ruling in Zelman v. Simmonds-
Harris, which said it was constitutional for money to go to the
children and the families could decide where the child would
receive educational services. He described SJR 9 as not being
afraid of hearing what the people of Alaska want. He emphasized
that the constitution and the educational system belongs to the
people and these children belong to their families. He said his
intent is not to directly fund religious schools. If people want
a voucher it is better done through a tax credit.
SENATOR DUNLEAVY referred to a letter from legislative council
and an attorney general report from 2005 about crossing the line
between giving public money to private and sectarian educational
entities. Many people believe this is currently happening. He
cited a correspondence school that allows children to purchase a
course from Brigham Young University and tutorial services at
Sylvan as examples of potentially crossing the line. He
referenced Mr. Nussbaum's testimony during the last hearing
about three U.S. Supreme Court cases and opined that the state
has a choice. He said his intent is to have a broader education
system with public accountability. He said it is the people's
constitution and parents are aware of their choices. They do not
need the legislature to protect them.
He referred to a poll that shows that the people of Alaska would
like the opportunity to vote on their constitution regarding
this issue.
2:53:12 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI commented that numerous times the
legislature has overturned the will of the people. The most
recent instance was the cruise ship initiative.
SENATOR DUNLEAVY asked if that was a constitutional amendment or
a voter initiative.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI replied that was a voter initiative. The
people voted on the issue, and just a few weeks ago the
legislature voted to overturn the will of the people.
He asked if municipalities and local communities would be
required to participate if the state decides to have a voucher
program.
SENATOR DUNLEAVY said that is a discussion that would have to
take place. Vouchers come in a variety of types and he did not
know if they follow municipal codes.
2:56:07 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there is recourse if someone felt
strongly against using their public dollars for a religious
institution.
SENATOR DUNLEAVY replied he did not know, but he had not heard
it was a problem in other areas. He cited examples of a
municipality running water and sewer lines to a church property
and clearing a sidewalk in front of a church.
CHAIR COGHILL said that if the state gave public funds to the
direct educational benefit of the student, the real question is
if the state could direct the student or family choices.
SENATOR DUNLEAVY said that is possible. He reiterated that he is
advocating for an expansion of the public education system where
students and their families get to use their education dollars
as they see fit as long as the students pass proficiency tests.
2:58:24 PM
CHAIR COGHILL noted the bill is written to say, "the direct
educational benefit" then "as provided by law," meaning that the
sponsor's expectation is that a set of rules would follow this
direct educational benefit.
SENATOR DUNLEAVY said absolutely. He talked about a tax credit
bill he was working on which would include private and/or faith-
based educational entities along with a dozen other entities
that are currently receiving tax credits. He maintained that the
bill would show what a "voucher" would look like. He explained
that he was trying to make sure that the millions of dollars
currently being spent are for things that are constitutional. He
predicted that the future is voucher/tax credit.
CHAIR COGHILL said he wanted to have a record of debate by the
committee therefore, he would hold SJR 9 in committee until the
next meeting. He closed public testimony.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 72 28LS0625A.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 72 |
| Introduction to Proposed Amendments.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 72 |
| Chapter 55 Office of the Ombudsman.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 72 |
| SB072-DOA-OPA-3-15-13.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 72 |
| SB072-DOA-PDA-3-15-13.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 72 |
| SB072-DOC-OC-03-15-13.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SB 72 |
| Testimony of L M Nussbaum.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |
| Senate CS for CS HB 69.pdf |
SJUD 3/20/2013 1:30:00 PM SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
HB 69 |
| House Majority Poll Dittman Survey SJR 9.pdf |
SJUD 3/25/2013 1:30:00 PM |
SJR 9 |